From: Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com>
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 04:38:48 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Just Say "No" to Congress
In-Reply-To: <199705182104.OAA20232@netcom14.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970521160141.1337N-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 18 May 1997, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> R.A.:
> >You seem to be misinformed.  You don't send your money to Uncle Sam.  It 
> >gets taken out of every pay check before you even see it.   Then, come 
> >April 15, you fill a piece of paper out with the hope you'll get some of 
> >it back.  But sometimes, Uncle Sam takes even more.
> 
> right. and those who do nothing to change this, certainly can't expect
> that it will ever change.  but in fact it *has* changed before. it
> wasn't always the case that money was withhold. this law was introduced
> during WWII as I understand it.

Of course.  That would be the perfect time for it.  Martial Law and all 
that.  Oppose it and you get thrown in jail...  or labeled a spy or 
something...  What else is new?  Declare martial law, then put the screws 
in.  Once in place they're almost imposible to remove without leaking 
loads of blood.
 
> is it true that something that can be done cannot be undone? or can
> the withholding tax be undone just as it was done? a certain amount
> of energy was expended in creating the situation that we find ourselves
> in-- decades of entrenchment. I submit that exactly the same amount
> of energy applied to the problem can *undo* it. it's a simple concept
> of conservation of energy. granted, a lot of energy is involved, I don't
> deny that. but *no* energy will get you absolutely nowhere. 

Welp, go for it.  Do whatever you think is appropriate to undo the law.  
I'd bet the people will agree with you, but the political scum that is, 
will not, nor is it likely that the media will allow you to speak your 
words. More likely weird allegations of child molestation, drug abuse, 
and plans of A.P. will "leak" out, and possibly a Jim Bell style raid on 
your house. :)  Asking your kongress kritter to undo this law is unlikely 
to result in much more than laughter.  So where does that leave you?

> what others are claiming is that no amount of energy will change
> anything, so why bother? indeed, why bother with your life at all?
> perhaps suicide is the easiest and ultimate solution for people who
> think this way. there are things in your life that you think you
> can change, right? why is the tax system not included in that category?
> I agree, one person cannot change the system. do not give me examples
> where one person failed. this is conservation of peoplehood; if many
> people were involved in its creation, than many must be involved in
> its destruction.

*Burp* Sorry, I'm too busy with living my life to do a Heaven's Gate 
special. :)  Since the money is taken out before we even see it, most 
people won't fight it, since it is already gone.

Well, then organize the many to do something if that is your wish.  
Nothing is holding you back.

I myself consult out.  Consulting out means that the money isn't taken 
out at all.  You just have to pay it back come April 15.  Day job, being 
a full time job, money gets taken out automagically by the evil agents 
of the IRS critters.  Consulting money, come the 1099 form, gets taxed 
after.

So even if you manage to upturn this law and get to keep the money until 
April 15, it wouldn't affect me much.  IMHO it's much easier if the money 
gets withheld, then having to pull hairs out doing tax forms come April.

Now if you can somehow repeal income tax, that would be a useful 
achievement. :)

I'm not opposed to taxes.  I'm opposed to their use without my say.  That 
is I want to tell Uncle Sam where the money goes.  If I decide my 30% 
that they chop out goes to the next stealth bomber, then that is where 
it should go.  If I say it should go to the schools, then that is where 
it should go, etc.  You think them kongress kritters will accept such a 
thing?  And no, not one cent of my "voluntary" contribution would go to 
kongress, were I to have it my way.  Hell, if I could even decide on 1/2 
of that, it would still be progress.

IMHO, this is nothing but a pipe dream, and I don't have any interest in 
politics.  I've too many other concerns to deal with.

But do whatever you feel is appropriate.  That in a nutshell was my 
opinion.  *Burp*

> oh really? here are some questions that anyone can ask about
> why their money was stolen.
> 
> 1. who is the person who stole my money?

In the case of taxes, Uncle Sam

> 2. why did they steal it?

For a billion things such as stealth bombers, for kogress salaries, for
bullets, for $3K military issue toilets that will survive nuke blasts, roads,
toll bridges, tax forms, black budget stuff, shipments to other countries,
jails, new draconian laws, bribe money, money to pay the prostitutes at the
congressional parties, "Just Say No" anti drug campains, trading coke for
guns, etc, etc, etc... 

> 3. what could prevent it from being stolen?

Welp, that's simple.  Quit your job and become homeless.  If you don't 
produce any money, they can't take any away from you.  They certainly 
can't put you in jail for it, and hell if they do, guess what, you get 
free food and a free place to sleep, and a big boyfriend named 'Bubba to 
keep you warm and fuzzy at night.

> 4. what can I do to protect my money from being stolen?

Work for the mob or something equally salacious, or get paid in cash and 
say you're unemployed, then go on welfare while you work, etc...

> government construction is an *engineering* problem. you cannot
> build something without putting thought and labor into it.
> I believe that if cpunks put their mind to it, they could create
> a better system than we now have-- and it wouldn't be anarchy (which
> is no system at all).

So put your mind to it and do something about it instead of yapping 
about it to us.  We don't give a shit.  If we did, we would have done 
something about it already.
 
> what if you showed up on the doorstep of a politician of your choice
> who you thought was stealing money from you? what if not only you
> but many people did this? would the government change? would they
> shoot you?

A few years back, the men in white would be called with a padded wagon, or
more likely today the jack booted ATF (ex BATFuck) men with guns and 
walkie talkies.
 
> I don't buy into the alienation and cynicism on this list peddled
> by TCM, truthmonger, et.al., and I suggest that anyone else who
> does is selling themself short, and in fact part of the problem and
> not the solution.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate"  --
whomever.. Say, whatever you've been smoking, care to share it with us?  We
could use some I'm sure... 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    | "Boy meets beer.  Boy drinks Beer,     |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|        Boy gets another beer!"         |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |                                        |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die.     |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================