From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 05:22:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Just Say "No" to Congress
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970516230840.24291E-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199705182104.OAA20232@netcom14.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



R.A.:
>You seem to be misinformed.  You don't send your money to Uncle Sam.  It 
>gets taken out of every pay check before you even see it.   Then, come 
>April 15, you fill a piece of paper out with the hope you'll get some of 
>it back.  But sometimes, Uncle Sam takes even more.

right. and those who do nothing to change this, certainly can't expect
that it will ever change.  but in fact it *has* changed before. it
wasn't always the case that money was withhold. this law was introduced
during WWII as I understand it.

is it true that something that can be done cannot be undone? or can
the withholding tax be undone just as it was done? a certain amount
of energy was expended in creating the situation that we find ourselves
in-- decades of entrenchment. I submit that exactly the same amount
of energy applied to the problem can *undo* it. it's a simple concept
of conservation of energy. granted, a lot of energy is involved, I don't
deny that. but *no* energy will get you absolutely nowhere. 

what others are claiming is that no amount of energy will change
anything, so why bother? indeed, why bother with your life at all?
perhaps suicide is the easiest and ultimate solution for people who
think this way. there are things in your life that you think you
can change, right? why is the tax system not included in that category?
I agree, one person cannot change the system. do not give me examples
where one person failed. this is conservation of peoplehood; if many
people were involved in its creation, than many must be involved in
its destruction.

T.M.:
>As for my being hypocritical, Detweiler is free to think whatever he
>thinks. If and when I go down in a shootout with the fascists, I expect
>it'll be over something more dramatic than not paying my taxes.

just out of curiosity timmy, what would you think is more likely?

>> ok truthmonger, after someone has stolen your money, do you
>> report it to the police, or do you just sit around and
>> curse the evildoer? what is your response when your money
>> is stolen?
>
>  I kiss it goodbye and forget about it.

oh really? here are some questions that anyone can ask about
why their money was stolen.

1. who is the person who stole my money?
2. why did they steal it?
3. what could prevent it from being stolen?
4. what can I do to protect my money from being stolen?


government construction is an *engineering* problem. you cannot
build something without putting thought and labor into it.
I believe that if cpunks put their mind to it, they could create
a better system than we now have-- and it wouldn't be anarchy (which
is no system at all).

truthmonger:
>I've lost a few thousand dollars worth of goods to thieves,
>but criminal cops have cost me tens of thousands of dollars in
>the legal system.
>

what if you showed up on the doorstep of a politician of your choice
who you thought was stealing money from you? what if not only you
but many people did this? would the government change? would they
shoot you?


I don't buy into the alienation and cynicism on this list peddled
by TCM, truthmonger, et.al., and I suggest that anyone else who
does is selling themself short, and in fact part of the problem and
not the solution.