From: Declan McCullagh <declan@well.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 00:19:48 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com>
Subject: Re: FUCK YOU: There's no general right to privacy -- get over it, from Netly
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970613112827.23715F-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970613083909.27747Q-100000@well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It's sad but not surprising that Ray didn't even bother to read the
article before saying "FUCK YOU." Talk about clueless...

He still misunderstands my position. I'm saying you have no property right
in information others collect about you.

> How many loons have used DMV records to stalk their victims?

How many loons have used newspaper reports to stalk their victims?
 
> How about the nice Netscape hole that allows sites to surf your hard drive
> as you're surfing their sites?

Great. You want Congress to pass a law that says "Netscape shall release
no more buggy browsers." Yeah, and mandate that pi is 3.14, right? 

> Yes, I do take privacy seriously, and I do protect it.  But to say anyone
> has the right to snoop my machines and see what I have there is NOT cool.
> What I leave on my computer is my private business, and NOBODY HAS THE
> RIGHT TO SURF IT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.  Whether or not they have root.

I'm not saying that people have a "right to surf (?) it without your
permission." That's a violation of your property rights, a trespass. But
if you connect to my web site, I should be allowed to record whatever info
leaks from your computer. Don't like it? Cut the flow or don't come. 

-Declan


On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Ray Arachelian wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> > Oh, and at least read the whole article.
> > 
> > -Declan
> >    
> >    Privacy? What Privacy?
> > 
> >    by Declan McCullagh   June 12, 1997
> >    
> >         I have a confession to make: Unlike many of my civil libertarian
> >    colleagues, I believe you have no general right to privacy online.
> >    Sure, you have the right to protect your personal data, but you
> >    shouldn't be able to stop someone else from passing along that
> >    information if you let it leave your computer. That's your
> >    responsibility.
> 
> I still disagree, and not just online.  There is plenty of information
> that you have no control over but should.  Your credit card transactions
> for instance can be looked up by any scumbag willing to pay money to TRW
> and it's ilk.  Your DMV records, your health records.  In theory only
> those that need to know this knowledge should be able to access it, and in
> practice what have we seen so far? 
> 
> If I give XYZ corp any info I expect them not to sell that info without my
> permission.  Verily, that information is valuable, therefore if they want
> to sell it, they should get my permission, and should pay me for it.
> 
> I don't necessarily want government restrictions on privacy, however I
> would want a constitutional amendment to privacy that says: all I do is
> private unless I explicitly share it with others, and if I do share it,
> they may not pass it on to others without my permission.  This is on a
> personal level, not on a corporate or governmental level.  Why I feel this
> way is an excercise for the reader.  Hint: Uncle Sam works for us since we
> pay him from our income.  We don't work for him (most of the time.)
> 
> How many loons have used DMV records to stalk their victims?
> 
> How about the nice Netscape hole that allows sites to surf your hard drive
> as you're surfing their sites?
> 
> Yes, I do take privacy seriously, and I do protect it.  But to say anyone
> has the right to snoop my machines and see what I have there is NOT cool.
> What I leave on my computer is my private business, and NOBODY HAS THE
> RIGHT TO SURF IT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.  Whether or not they have root.
> As for Radio Shack weasels, I don't give them info, or give them
> misleading info.  What's on my hard drives and in my machine's RAM is NONE
> OF ANYONE'S BUSINESS!
> 
> At the last PC Expo, I registered as H.P. Lovecraft.  When I buy things
> that are purchased by credit card I know that info will leak out, and
> don't do this unless I'm willing to leak it out.
> 
> So, I still disagree with your view.  Even after reading the whole
> article.
> 
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