From: Alan <alano@teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 01:58:41 +0800
To: "Philip A. Mongelluzzo" <phimon@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: spam on this list
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970623063123.0092e8c0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970623100514.944B-100000@linda.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Philip A. Mongelluzzo wrote:

> I certainly agree with free speech and understand how it can be manipulated
> by the scum bags at large in society, _BUT_ free speech is free speech.
> The warts come from an ever increasing BENT society.

No you don't.  You believe in free speach for the things that do not tweak
your worldview.  I am certainly willing to bet that if you had the chance
to remove the rights of the "bent" people from expressing their views, you
would not hesitate in the slightest.

> I still am concerned about kids being subject to material that is
> inappropriate for their age group (what ever that may be).  

"Whatever that may be" is a very telling statement.  How can you tell what
is "appropreate" or "not".  What the media tells you?  What your religious
leaders tell you?  What the voices in your head tell you?  What the
government tells you?  All of those values are subjective.  They depend on
what you may or may not believe is "harmful".  Most of that is based on
cultural conditioning.

>So how do I
> insure that my son/daugher does not get their hands on _THIS_ material?

Kill them now.  Stick them in a box and feed them through a slot in the
door. Gouge out their eyes. Cut off their hands.

> Twenty seven years ago I took an oath to do whatever was needed to protect
> and defend the constitution against all enemies (domestic and foreign)  But
> what is the solution to this problem from a parents point of view?

You view the constitution as a problem?  Free speach as a problem?

Or maybe you have a problem that your children might learn about things
that you disapprove of?  Maybe they might read something that shows them
that sex is a part of life, not just something that is a side benefit of
marriage.  Maybe they might learn that sex is fun!  Maybe they will find
out that the religion their parents saddled them with is based on lies and
urban legend.  maybe they will find that their government is not so kind
and benevolent after all.  Maybe they will find out that their parents are
human and make mistakes.  Or maybe they will even figure out that the
material the parents are so afraid of are only harmful to the parents...

>  Simple
> - control the material.  Make it like liquor, guns, booze.  Oops.. for some
> reason this is a violation of the 1st amendment to!

It is also an impossibility.  People have tried to control the natural
interest in sex since the dawn of time.  Has not worked yet.  Porn has
existed since man discovered woman.  Some of the earliest existing films
are porno movies.  What has changed is access and awareness.  Until
reletive reciently porn has been more underground.  But with the spread of
technology, it has become easier and easier to supply the demand for such
things.

Or as a certain math professor once said... "Dirty books are fun!"

>  Ok, my mistake, its my
> problem.  That's easy, no Internet access.  Now my kid is at a
> disadvantage!  I keep loosing here.  I don't like the way this is beginning
> to feel!!

Your kid is already at a disadvantage.  His parents have lost perspective.

> I'm sure that the community on this list has discussed this problem at
> length.  What is the best defense?  How do we get the message out or,
> better yet, deliver it?  

You assume that it actually is a problem.  Your moral qualms over pictures
of sexual activity does not a problem make.

it is people like yourself who are activly destroying what little remains
of the constitution.  You want an exception for this and a rationalization
for that until thre is nothing left but the blandest and most tasteless
thoughts and speach.

> Whatever that is, we need to do the same thing for the 2nd Ammendment, and
> the 3rd, and so on.

Like actually follow it?  Wow!  That would be a first.

> The challenge to write code could be fun, but maybe we should use our
> collective wisdom to deliver the best of the best solutions (there may be
> more than one) to our elected officials.  Load their mailboxes up with
> solutions to problems.  Sooner or later more than one of them is going to
> think its his/her idea and push it along.  Web sites can be set up to
> assist them with details.  I'm sure you get the idea.

You are talking to the wrong group of people.  What you are asking for is
a way to censor the masses.

Anything an adult can get, a child can get.

Attempts to censor children and control what they hear, see and feel are
vague attempts to do the same to adults.  You cannot control the
information feed to children without controling the information feed for
adults. (But deep down in your heart you would like to see that as well.)

> Just another citizen wondering if anything is going to be left for our
> grandchildren.

You think this information will harm them?  Actually the control freak
mentality you want to impose is far far worse.  In actuality, much of the
problems you would like to blame on porn are, in actuality, borne out of
this country's hypocracy and neurosis about sex and sexuality.  the reason
people are so fucked up about fucking is because they have been taught
that sex is somehow wrong and shameful and dirty.  That appreciating the
beauty of the sexual act is somehow more vile and disgusting than showing
someone shot full of holes.

I think you need to examine WHY this information makes you uncomfortable.
You might learn something about yourself.  But don't expect us to help
inflict your sickness on the minds of your children.

alano@teleport.com | "Those who are without history are doomed to retype it."