From: Petro <petro@playboy.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:22:39 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <v04011706b2889eb2b6a8@[206.189.103.230]>
Message-ID: <v04011703b28df9c5afbe@[206.189.103.230]>
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At 3:48 PM -0500 12/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> 	Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case:
>> >     Let's start with the basics: water.  An urban adult
>> >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day.  This doesn't count
>> 	Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day,
>> including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon,
>> and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink
>> too much.
>> 	I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking
>> solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long
>> distance ride.
>> 	Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking.
>> 	Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long.
>Come on people. We are talking SURVIVAL here. Can you ski your showers
>if you do not have enough water?

	In the first block he was talking about _normal_ _day_to_day_ water
usage. I was attacking that point.

>The true answer is, if shit hits the fan and there is no water in the
>faucet, almost all activity except drinking and washing hands and dishes
>can be curtailed.

	Not for long periods of time. General cleanlyness IS VERY important
in survival situations. Clean skin and clothes help prevent infections from
common wounds (like barking your shin against something, or a scratch from
a tree branch &etc.)

>Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.

	Not in a crowded enviroment, that being a mid-sized town to a large
city.

>I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
>while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.

	Countryside.

>> 	Cooking: another gallon.
>It is included.

	Included in what? The pasta? The rice? The beans?

	I am not talking about a camping trip here, I am talking about
living off stored food for one to three months (anything longer (IMO) takes
VERY VERY different preperations.

>Much less.
>> 	Total: 40-75 (rounded up).
>Total: 2-3.

	In a max survival do-or-die situation, yes. For long term health,
no. and besides, that was a number assuming "normal" usage.

>> 	Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
>> dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
>> toilets.
>get them to shit outside.

	Why, so bacteria can fester, and things like dystensia (spelled
wrong, bacteria that causes "the shits" and other stomach problems) and
other diseases run rampant?

>I am not suggesting that Y2K is going to be a cakewalk. Quite possibly
>not. But Gary North is not worth listening to because he is biased and
>has a conflict of interests.

	I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the biggest problem with
Y2K is not going to be technical, but the Cultists & Gun Nuts (as a
distinct group from survivalists who simply wish to get on with their
lives) realize that it isn't the Apocolypse, and then seek to make it so.

>> 	Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of
>> dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making
>> sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull
>> start their generators to keep their computers running.
>> 	(I'm mostly joking about the above)
>I think that you had a good point... A long time ago I posted a "Skills

	Like I said, mostly.

>vs. guns" article to misc.survivalism. its point was, that in the long
>run having good skills and health was more important than stocking up.

	Bet they tried to run you out of there, they don't want to hear
that kinda stuff, they want to hear how to get the most out of their 4X4,
argue over whether the AK is better than the M-16 (hint, if you have to
shoot more than a clip, you're fucked) for a "survival" situation.

>> >     Let me give a simple example.  How will you wash
>> >clothes for everyone?  Let's assume that you have water.
>> >(Dreamer!)  You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry
>> >detergent from Sam's Club for $10.  It will do 160 loads.
>>
>> 	Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy
>> soap at the store?
>>
>> 	Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap?
>You can make semi-good "soap" from animal fat and ash.

	That is what "lye" soap is (basically)

>> 	Been despised all my life. I'm sure you know what that is like.
>No biggie.
>Besides, if you don't want to be despised, just don't be clean.

	That is not an option.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather nave, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com