From: John Gilmore <gnu@toad.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:39:58 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks
Subject: Sandy and I will run a cypherpunks "moderation" experiment in Jan
Message-ID: <199701051939.LAA05342@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I agree with Sandy Sandfort and many others that things have gotten
way out of hand on the list.  He and I feel that the only proposed
solutions likely to succeed involve inserting human judgement in the
cypherpunks posting process, rather than mere automation.  So I am
supporting this experiment, primarily by setting up a few more mailing
lists on Toad and by automatically moving the current set of
subscribers to the moderated list.  You will be able to move
yourselves back to the unedited list if you don't want to participate
in the experiment, or if, partway through, you decide you don't like
the results.

Sandy will be gone til Tuesday evening, so don't expect further
answers from him (or many from me, I'm swamped with other activities)
until then.  Meanwhile I'm interested in your discussion (on the list)
of the idea.  We'll modify it before starting, with good ideas from you.

	John Gilmore

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                         SANDY SANDFORT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 

C'punks,

Like many of you, I have become very disenchanted with the
quality of discourse on this list.  As others have pointed
out, I believe a great deal of the blame can be laid on the
lack of civility between list (and non-list) members.  I
think this, in turn, is the result of the list being open. 
As such, it has no feedback mechanisms to discourage
gratuitous insults and personal attacks.  The result has
been an escalation of such behavior--something that no
amount of personal mail filtering can rectify.

Recently, I made a couple of rough proposals to John Gilmore
to see if there was some way to reverse this trend.  We have
gone back and forth on several issues, but we finally
reached an agreement whereby I would partially moderate the
Cypherpunk list for a one-month test period.  If the
consensus of list members is that the test is going well, it
can be extended.  If members think it sucks, it can be
dropped or modified.  Even before we start, though, you may
wish to contribute suggestions.

The following is our general plan.  I'm sure there will be
questions that have to be answered as they arise, but the
basis outline is a follows:

1)  The test will run from January 11 through February 12.

2)  I will review all incoming messages for purposes of
preserving decorum and reducing obviously unrelated spam.  Other
then that, I will not overly concern myself with off-topic posts.  
I will, however, expurgate all posts containing flames, insults 
and other irrelevant personal attacks, as well as spams, before
forwarding the remaining posts to the Cypherpunk list.

3)  Cypherpunks who wish to read all posts to the list may do so
by taking advantage of either of two optional lists.  The first
(cypherpunk-flames@toad.com), will consist solely of messages
expurgated from the main Cypherpunks list.  (Those who subscribe
to "flames" will be able to easily monitor my moderating
decisions.)  The second (cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com), will
contain all posts sent to Cypherpunks.  It will be the equivalent
of the current open, unmoderated list.  It will appeal to those
who don't want list moderation.

4)  During the test month, polite discussion of the test will
always be on topic.  In the last few days before the 10th of
February, I will call for opinions as to whether moderation
should be continued, modified or eliminated.  John has agreed to
abide by the consensus of the group with one proviso.  Because of
the large volume of bandwidth eaten by the lists, he does not
want to maintain both the "flame" and "unedited" versions of the
list.  If list members decide to continue to have the list
moderated, one of those lists will probably have to go.

5)  If list members decide on a moderated list, I will be happy
to assist in the ongoing process.  Though I will continue to be
available for duty as moderator from time to time, we will need a
set of rotating volunteers to take turns acting as moderator. 
Volunteers are always welcome.

6)  Because every message submitted to Cypherpunk will be posted 
to two of the three sister lists, I don't intend to lose much
sleep over whether or not this or that moderating decision was
perfect.  I will do the best job I can, within the constraints
listed here.  If I err, it isn't fatal.  Everyone who wants one
will have two Cypherpunk venues for their posts.  Sounds fair
enough to me.  What do you think?


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS:  The new lists aren't set up yet, so there's no point in trying
to subscribe or unsubscribe to them yet.  We'll let you know when they
are working.		-- John