From: Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:39:47 -0800 (PST)
To: gnu@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Sandy and I will run a cypherpunks "moderation" experiment in Jan
In-Reply-To: <199701051939.LAA05342@toad.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.94.970105222016.23091B-100000@polaris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>                          SANDY SANDFORT
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
> 

[...]

> dropped or modified.  Even before we start, though, you may
> wish to contribute suggestions.
> 
> The following is our general plan.  I'm sure there will be
> questions that have to be answered as they arise, but the
> basis outline is a follows:
> 
> 1)  The test will run from January 11 through February 12.
> 
> 2)  I will review all incoming messages for purposes of
> preserving decorum and reducing obviously unrelated spam.  Other
> then that, I will not overly concern myself with off-topic posts.  
> I will, however, expurgate all posts containing flames, insults 
> and other irrelevant personal attacks, as well as spams, before
> forwarding the remaining posts to the Cypherpunk list.

A specific statement of what constitutes "flames, insults" and etc. might
be a good idea.

How will borderline posts be dealt with?  Posts that contain a great deal
of content and thoughful discussion and still manage to contain flames?

Will flames be an automatic boot for a post (zero tolerance), or will they
be balanced against post content?

What is the threshold which, for example, constitutes an "insult" ?

"Louis Freeh couldn't identify a directed well managed crypto policy if it
bit him on his pimple speckled ass."

"You are so turned around on this issue one is prompted to wonder if you
have any background in higher education at all."

"For the new members of the list, [insert list member here] has a history
of posting idiotic and useless posts, and generally wasting the list's
time like an asshole."

All of the above?  None of the above?

> 3)  Cypherpunks who wish to read all posts to the list may do so
> by taking advantage of either of two optional lists.  The first
> (cypherpunk-flames@toad.com), will consist solely of messages
> expurgated from the main Cypherpunks list.  (Those who subscribe
> to "flames" will be able to easily monitor my moderating
> decisions.)  The second (cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com), will
> contain all posts sent to Cypherpunks.  It will be the equivalent
> of the current open, unmoderated list.  It will appeal to those
> who don't want list moderation.

Excellent idea.

> 4)  During the test month, polite discussion of the test will
> always be on topic.  In the last few days before the 10th of
> February, I will call for opinions as to whether moderation
> should be continued, modified or eliminated.  John has agreed to
> abide by the consensus of the group with one proviso.  Because of
> the large volume of bandwidth eaten by the lists, he does not
> want to maintain both the "flame" and "unedited" versions of the
> list.  If list members decide to continue to have the list
> moderated, one of those lists will probably have to go.

I believe the "flames" list should be maintained as long as possible.
Continuing checks on the moderator (whoever it may be) are necessary and
appropriate.  What better way than to directly provide a means to identify
what the moderator has excluded?

(Also, if the flames and non flames lists are maintained, how is this more
bandwidth than the former condition where both flames and nonflames will
posted together?  In fact, if this has a deterant effect on flames (one of
the main reasons for instituting the policy) the bandwidth should be less.
Its only more bandwidth if the unmoderated list is maintained.

Perhaps the unmoderated list should be eliminated, as subscribing to both
the flames and the non-flames will have the same net effect...?

> 5)  If list members decide on a moderated list, I will be happy
> to assist in the ongoing process.  Though I will continue to be
> available for duty as moderator from time to time, we will need a
> set of rotating volunteers to take turns acting as moderator. 
> Volunteers are always welcome.

A diversity of moderators makes a detailed stated policy on moderation an
absolute must.

> 6)  Because every message submitted to Cypherpunk will be posted 
> to two of the three sister lists, I don't intend to lose much
> sleep over whether or not this or that moderating decision was
> perfect.  I will do the best job I can, within the constraints
> listed here.  If I err, it isn't fatal.  Everyone who wants one
> will have two Cypherpunk venues for their posts.  Sounds fair
> enough to me.  What do you think?

Excellent until the flames list is eliminated.

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