cryptoanarchy.wiki

Arise, you have nothing to lose but your barbed wire fences!

1997-07-19 - Re: Keepers of the keys

Header Data

From: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Message Hash: c8822ce9d092f3ed081d2cf6ad981e5884bc17dd164f528e683a9c47e1bd5d8c
Message ID: <19970719133131.02792@bywater.songbird.com>
Reply To: <19970719074314.59778@bywater.songbird.com>
UTC Datetime: 1997-07-19 20:40:22 UTC
Raw Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:40:22 +0800

Raw message

From: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:40:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Keepers of the keys
In-Reply-To: <19970719074314.59778@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <19970719133131.02792@bywater.songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, Jul 19, 1997 at 09:35:41AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> At 8:51 AM -0700 7/19/97, Marshall Clow wrote:
> >At 7:43 AM -0700 7/19/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
> >>On Fri, Jul 18, 1997 at 10:10:37PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> >>[usual rant deleted]
> >>>
> >>> Kill the key grabbers and all those who support them. Isn't it exactly what
> >>> Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, and the others would have argued?
> >>
> >>Amazing.  Patriotism -- the last refuge of the scoundrel.
> >>
> >>However, Patric Henry said something like "Give me liberty or give me
> >>death." That is really very different from "Kill everyone who opposes
> >>me and all their supporters." Tim doesn't seem to understand this
> >>nuance.
> >>
> >I think Tim is thinking of:
> >
> >	"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time,
> >	 with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
> >
> >which, of course, was written by Jefferson.
> 
> I wasn't giving any specific quote--I was referring to the general
> principles.

The general principle Tim espouses is, apparently, "Kill all who 
oppose, and anyone else remotely associated"  -- witness his calls to 
use the "nuclear disinfectant" on Washington, for example.  This is not, 
I believe, what Jefferson had in mind.

However, I consider such a sentiment either insane or not intended
seriously.  Assuming Tim is not insane, then he doesn't intend his
statements to be taken seriously. 

> Apparently Kent Crispin, whom I blissfully killfile, is a
> literalist. Some would say anal-retentive.

I can't resist pointing out what is usually associated with bliss. 
:-) 

I must point out, also, that I agree with Tim that GAK is bad.  
However, I believe that his rants actually do more harm than good to 
the cause.  

> Can there be any doubt what the reaction of the Founders and other patriots
> would be were they to be transported to our modern era and learn that there
> are proposals that all citizen-units are to be required to deliver the keys
> (and hence the contents) for their most private communications to the King?
> Er, I mean, "the Government."

Since they are just proposals, perhaps their reaction would be words
like "I don't agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death
to protect your right to say it." Or they might say something like
"the antidote to bad speech is good speech".  I don't think they would
make a general call to anihilate all opponents of their point of view.

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html

Thread