1997-06-06 - Re: McVeigh

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From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
To: Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com>
Message Hash: 7903f7dcc30658df391dd72862a8a9c4dc45b487a1d499f9703abc1e3f11566d
Message ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970606111429.1642G-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Reply To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970605115923.891A-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
UTC Datetime: 1997-06-06 13:10:58 UTC
Raw Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:10:58 +0800

Raw message

From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 21:10:58 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com>
Subject: Re: McVeigh
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970605115923.891A-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970606111429.1642G-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Yes, he is guilty of murder and I would favour torturing him to death 
> > slowly, this is not emotional reactionism, merely a desire for justice 
> > and fair punishment.
> You do not know for a fact if he is guilty of murder.  You only know that
> he was judged guilty.  Whatever the truth is, you and I, and everyone else
> discussing this, cannot know.  McVeigh himself knows if he did it.
> Witnesses (if any) would also know.  This is all speculation.

I thought in my post I qualified that statement with a "If he did it" 
line, whatever, it doesn`t really matter, the government will always find 
someone to blame. From now on, in this thread, asssume McVeigh == 
"McVeigh, if he did it"

> Personally, I didn't.  I don't call for slow torture because to me, it
> isn't justice or injustice.  I was not affected by his actions.  If he did
> set off the bomb, life in death, or execution is a valid punishment.  I do
> question your reasoning for calling for torture though.  How is that fair
> punishment and justice?

I don`t really judge it in terms of punishment or as justice or as "fair 
trade". McVeigh took an extreme criminal act of agression against 
innocent people, I believe that implicit in that act (once proven) is the 
removal of his rights, that includes the "right not to be tortured" <tm>.
I was not directly affected by his actions, and I`m not at all affected 
by images of death and destruction anyway, I don`t hate McVeigh, I don`t 
have any personal grudge against him or need to see him punished, I 
merely recognise that he has surrendered his rights, any punishment is 
acceptable, whether it is fitting or not is a different thread.

The only reason I have any reservations whatsoever about the death 
penalty in this particular case is because, although I personally believe 
McVeigh is guilty, there was enough reasonable doubt to get a not-guilty 

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