1997-06-03 - Re: McVeigh

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From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
To: Hallam-Baker <hallam@ai.mit.edu>
Message Hash: eb877fd01d2ea2ca505083ba763b87f87c5148e420f39934ee126a02dd4599e3
Message ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970603182957.90A-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Reply To: <3393682D.167E@ai.mit.edu>
UTC Datetime: 1997-06-03 23:30:15 UTC
Raw Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:30:15 +0800

Raw message

From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:30:15 +0800
To: Hallam-Baker <hallam@ai.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: McVeigh
In-Reply-To: <3393682D.167E@ai.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970603182957.90A-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > Yes, poor Tim Mcveigh.  If he's innocent then he is one more victim
> > of the OKC bomber.
> I'm surprised at the concern. After all I've not noticed militia
> supporters and appologists speaking out against the death penalty.

Tim McVeigh certainly acted for the right reasons. This does not make him 
any less guilty, he killed innocent children in that building (no, I`m 
not subscribing to the "save the children!" mentality, and do not believe 
that an innocent childs life is more valuable than that of an innocent 
adult, merely noting that as children they could not have been guilty of 
acts of agression against McVeigh or anyone else because they were under 
the age of criminal responsibility), if we were to say he were any less 
guilty we would be allowing ourselves to believe in thoughcrime, and not 
judging the overt act. 

Whether McVeigh himself did it or not is questionable, I believe he did, 
this is just a gut feeling, no jury should have convicted him on the 
pathetic collection of circumstantial evidence presented.

> If one is driving away from the scene of the biggest single terrorist
> incident on US soil one is probably well advised to both have 
> license plates on the car and not be carrying unlicensed firearms.

Of course, but stupidity does not signify guilt. McVeigh almost seemed to 
WANT to be caught, this is backed up by the fact that he has right wing 
militia literature in his car at the time of his arrest.

> If one is arrested its probably not advisable to counter interrogation
> by refusing to give more than name rank and serial number, a request
> to see a lawyer is probably a more sensible choice.

McVeigh certainly didn`t make the smart choice, but he made the right 
choice, he was at war with the US government, name rank and number were 
all he was obliged to release.

> The one problem I have with the trial is the leaking of the
> defense notes. I suspect that they are genuine and that McVeigh 
> really did confess. 
I personally feel the same, McVeigh pleading not guilty suprised me, he 
originally planned a suicide attack I believe, which would lead me to 
suggest he would not later back down from his actions like that.

> In the UK publication would be barred for
> the duration of the trial and heavy jail sentences imposed since
> the right to a fair trial is considered a reasonable justification
> for a temporary bar on the right to free speech. 

In the UK anything is considered reasonable justification for 
restrictions on free speech, there are draconian restrictions on the 
freedom of the press. 
Of course, freedom of speech is absolute, if you believe a few rags 
printing allged defense notes will affect a prosecution you are probably 
right, that does not make censorship acceptable.

> However I would
> not argue that the trial be halted as a result since one 
> possible explanation is that the defense saw that there was no 
> chance of aquital and gambled on gaining a mistrial. 

The defense is a joke, but what do you expect? Whether McVeigh did it or 
not, the government wants someone to blame and McVeigh is the idea 
target, an anti-government "evil terrorist" to parade in front of the media.

> Appologists for McVeigh should consider that his actions did not 
> advance the militia cause an iota, it destroyed it and along with 
> it much of the right wing fringe. It forced Rush Limbaugh off 
> television and many right wing hosts off radio. 

Indeed, McVeigh has harmed the cause of freedom. Quite the opposite of 
his intentions.

> McVeigh ripped the heart out of the militia movement, he demonstrated
> what it was really about. Ironically the Oaklahoma bombing may have
> had precisely the effect McVeigh desired but in a very different 
> sense. It was a wake up call to defend the country from fascism 
> but the fascist threat was McVeigh and the millitia movement.

Of course, if the militia movement were to have any effect a concentrated 
effort or even a few bombings killing only government employees would 
have been a better course of action.

> recovered from the beer hall putsch. Alternatively they can 
> loudly claim that McVeigh was "framed" in the same way that
> other neo-NAZIs on the net claim the holocaust a fake, i.e.
> so that nobody really believes it. I suspect that this script

The militias would be better to disown McVeigh and condemn his alleged 
actions because he killed innocents. 

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